Hello? Good afternoon, Mr. Best. Yes. This is David Ball, phoning from Japan. I spoke to you a few weeks ago, calling about Mr. Frank Morley-Fletcher. About Morley-Fletcher? Yes. Yes. Well, he was... He rose in England to be the head. Of the biggest art college in England, in Edinburgh, I believe it was Edinburgh. Yes, it was, yes. And he was offered a very lucrative job, heading up the art center in Santa Barbara, California. And this was in the late 20s, about 1928, 29. Yes. And he moved out there. I should mention that he was ostracized by his family, because he married a model. She turned out to be a very brilliant woman, and a wonderful lady, and a very fine actress, among other things. Anyway, they moved out to Ojai, to Santa Barbara, and then the crash wiped him out. Oh, of course, the Wall Street crash. The stock market crash ended his job. And then he moved to Ojai, California, a lovely little town. Yes. And he lived there for the rest of his life. And he used to paint pictures for the local... He'd do portraits of the local grocery man's wife to get money for groceries. He was very hard up. I see. And they managed, they put on garden parties of recitals. And his wife was superb at putting on a recital. And they would charge 50 cents a head or something like that, and people flocked in from everywhere. And that's how they made enough money to live on. And finally, the old age pension, he was about 75 then, the old age pension kicked in, and he began getting $75 a month, which was pretty good money in those days, if you were, you know, if you were dead broke. A very generous man donated him a little cottage to live in, first of all a piece of land, and then neighbors all got together and fixed him up a little cottage and got finished. And they were a very happy couple, very charming, and a real delight to know. And I was in Hollywood as a radio program director for Columbia Broadcasting System. Now, this would be 1937 and 38. And I would go up and visit them. And I remember the first time I walked in on them, not knowing their situation, I hadn't seen my great uncle Frank for a long, long time, but I had never met him, I guess. So I looked him up, and they asked me to stay over the weekend. And then Dolly went to the refrigerator, and it was empty. She said, my dear, Frank, we're going to have to put on another recital. We don't have any clothes. So I got in my car, I had a little convertible, and I drove down to the village, and I bought an entire big load of groceries and all kinds of things, and I took them up to the house and I put them in the refrigerator. I didn't say anything. And they were very grateful. They didn't complain. They didn't comment. They felt that, you know, I was doing what I wanted to do, and I did. And so we ate very well that weekend. And eventually, Dolly, his wife, was walking their dog in the street outside, and she dropped dead in a heart attack. Really? At what age would this be? Well, she would have been, she was younger than he was, but not by an awful lot. I would guess she was around 65. I don't know. Anyway, he was completely shattered by the situation. And he decided then that he would put his things in order, and then he would just let nature take its course, and he was looking forward to dying. And I helped him sort out his quota state, whatever it was, and he showed me when I was there his Japanese woodcuts. He was a pioneer in that kind of work, apparently. Yes, very much so. He introduced the concept very much to many people in the world, in that Japanese style. He also wrote a book on color, which is apparently a standard accepted book in the art world. I don't know. I never had a copy of it. I have a copy right here with me now. His book on how to make woodblock prints. It was very, very influential back in the early part of this century. That's right. And then he got all his things in order, and he made out his will. He left his car to the man who helped him around the house in Mexico. I mean, he'd help him in and out of the bathtub because he was very frail then. And he had something wrong with his abdomen, like I mentioned, with cancer. I don't know. And eventually he had to go to the hospital, and then he died a couple of days after going to the hospital. So this is very soon after his wife passed away then? Well, it was within a year. I don't remember exactly how much time, but he had time to sort of put his things in order, and as it would be, his friends all came to see him, you know. He was a very popular man, very learned, very much the gentleman, and sort of like a country squire. I mean, he really was a great man, and Dolly was right there with him. And they were highly regarded in the entire community, including in Hollywood. Well, she did some acting for movies, I guess, a couple of times. During these years then, from the time they moved to this town, did he still make woodblock prints? Did he try and...? Well, he was doing it when I was there. I see. But he wasn't able to sell anything, or...? No, he couldn't sell anything. The market was completely kaput. You know, in 1937, there was a big depression. Nobody was buying anything. He couldn't sell it. I mean, he did the portrait of that famous... the man who blew up Wall Street back in 1929 or something. When he got out of jail, Frank was commissioned to do his portrait, and he did that. Occasionally he got a commission like that, which helped, you know, tell him to make few bucks. I see. They had a rough time. And I wasn't making that much money that I could do much for them. And I was just a young guy, about 25, and trying to make a living myself, you know. So... Are you aware now when Mr. Fletcher's prints go on sale, they're in the thousands of dollars, of course, each? Every time? When Mr. Fletcher's prints are now sold in galleries and in shops, they have many thousands... But they are. But they are. The collectors' items, no? Yes, very much so, yes. So I would imagine that he was a pioneer in that, as far as doing it in Kenya and the United States is concerned. And he became highly expert at it. And he showed me how he did it all. And I tried to follow, but I'm not very good at that stuff. But I listened to his explanation. And he didn't give me any prints myself. I never asked him for anything. He never gave me any of his paintings, if I asked him for any of those. And I think he left them to a foundation in Hollywood. I don't quite get the name of it. And he had paintings hanging in the Royal Art Gallery in England, several of them. He was that good. Really, yes. He was a very good portrait painter. So he then, he had no contact with England again, during all those years of living in America? No. And I didn't realize that he was too proud to get in contact with his brothers, who were all very well off. I mean, so Walter Moly Fletcher was a famous scientist. He was knighted by the Queen, and a renowned scientist. Or was, he's dead now. And then there was Sir Herbert Moly Fletcher, who was a doctor on Holly Street, which is a pretty fancy street. These people are Frank's brothers, are they? They were upset when they found out from me, I guess indirectly, that Frank had such a tough time. And they said, my God, why didn't you tell us? And I said, well, it didn't occur to me. I didn't realize that the brothers didn't communicate with him that much. So he lost all contact with his family completely? Very much did, yeah. And he had very little contact with the United Kingdom that I was aware of. Most of it was in California, and a lot of very influential people were very much a supporter of his. How are you related to Frank, Mr. Bass? I'm his, he is my great uncle. Now, he was my mother's uncle, and the Moly Fletcher family. Frank Moly Fletcher, Walter Moly Fletcher, Herbert Moly Fletcher, and my mother, Winifred Guest later. In California now, in Ojai now, is there any trace left of Mr. Fletcher? I doubt it. Nothing. It would be forgotten pretty much, would it? Oh yes, by now it would be completely forgotten. Places all grown up, and big avocado groves, and all kinds of things. No, there wouldn't be anything left of his there at all, with my knowledge. I don't know who inherited, who acquired his woodcutting material. Oh, you mean the tools. I don't know what happened to that. Let's see, I was a busy kid working in Hollywood, directing radio shows. I wasn't able to sort of do much, except to visit those people as I could, and help them out with a little bit of groceries. But they were a very happy, dead-in-air couple. Regardless of the circumstance, they were always very happy. That's a good thing to hear then, to hear in this story about being broke and the empty refrigerator sounds, of course, quite depressing. But if they were happy together, then? They made ends meet. They knew how to, when they had no money, then they'd have a little presentation, and then she would recite from the great poems that had been written, and so on, like that. The people came around and paid to hear her. And sometimes she would get a commission to do a painting, I expect, I don't know. I guess she too would have been divorced from her family then, but she had no contact with back in Scotland or England? Apparently not. She had a sister living in Santa Barbara. Her sister's husband was a school teacher, but they didn't get along very well. So this couple just lived happily together in this small house? Frank Molyfletcher and his wife, yes. They were very happy. They had a lovely little house on the side of the hill, out from town, I mean in the Nice Oak area, and it was all paid for. They didn't have to pay anything. I don't know, maybe the neighbor paid the taxes. I don't know. But I told Frank Molyfletcher what to do with that property when he died, and I said, well, I think you should give it back to the man who gave it to you. Justice, yes. That would be the right thing to do. I could have said I wanted it, you know, but I didn't. And I was a immediate descendant, if you will, but I didn't get anything. I didn't ask for anything. I see. I'm now 87 years old, going on 88. You also sound like quite a gentleman, sir. Well, that's the thing I am. Anyway, I had a very fine career in the advertising business in the States. I did very well, so I've retired for 25 years now here in Canada. One other thing I could mention, perhaps, the book that Mr. Fletcher left on how to make woodblock prints, it's in the public domain now. The copyright has expired, and we have put the entire text of the book on the Internet. Oh. And now anybody who's interested in learning about woodblock printmaking can access this book, all the illustrations, the entire text is there, free for anybody to browse through. Oh, really? That's interesting. That's not something that would interest me, but... No, for those of us who... There are people who would like me. Very much so. It's been accessed now many hundreds of times. People have downloaded from the Internet the entire book. Right. So it's perhaps possible now that many more people are having access to his work than ever did during his lifetime. Yes. Now, you say you have some of his woodblock prints. I myself... Any? No, I don't own any. I can't afford to. Well, you don't have any yourself. I can't afford them. They're too expensive. Well, I imagine they are now. I have no idea what they're worth. No, many thousands of dollars each now. And I wish I knew what happened to his workshop and all his equipment that he used. That was in his house in Ojai. And, of course, when he died, I didn't go up there and I didn't have occasion to have anything to do with his estate. It was all handled by the... whoever handles those things. Yes. Well, he also... He had many Japanese prints that he owned. Those also are, of course, extremely interesting and valuable prints. I imagine so. A lot of his artwork was worth a lot of money. And he... There was a family in Santa Monica who were very fond of Frank and Molly and Dolly. And they made a point of, I think, buying some of his things. And they set up some sort of a foundation, I believe, of his... from his estate. I mean, he had a lot of paintings that he hadn't sold. I think they all went into this foundation, whatever it was called. In Santa Monica. In Santa Monica. Now, I don't know what happened to that or what... So long ago now. Yes, it's all passed away now. Anyway, can I give you any information additional? No, I think you've very much helped us to fill in the background here, a bit about why this man was in America, what kind of person he was like, and what kind of life he led during those years. That's been very, very helpful. Thank you very much. Well, he was a very fine artist. One of the world's leading artists, I would say. And when he headed up the Santa Barbara Art Colony, whatever they called it, Art Institute, they paid him a lot of money to do that, I think. And it was then the sort of number one art institute in the United States, as I recall. And then when the Depression hit, that was all wiped out. Yes. His life was very much changed by that, obviously. Oh, yes, tremendously. And he went from being a fairly rich man with a big home and all his lovely furniture and things, which his sister-in-law pinched most of it. And when he wanted some of it back, she wouldn't let him have it. It was pretty nasty, anyway. But he went from being a relatively wealthy man, accustomed to the silver spoon, if you will, to being a very poor guy. He never sought any help from his relatives, which I understand, he was a very proud man. But he did what he did. It was his idea, the right thing to do. And so if they didn't want to talk to him, that was all right, you know. May I have your permission to put some of the things you've told me today to include these on our Internet website together with Mr. Fletcher's book? Yes, I think so. I don't want to make too much of the fact that he became a pauper, sort of, you know, dependent upon the good graces of his neighbors and his own ingenuity. I mean, I imagine he was selling woodcuts at that time, but he couldn't get much money for them. Oh, I think his status at that time is no bad reflection on him. Obviously, the American economic society had been destroyed by the crash, so there's no negative... The whole economy of the United States was flat on its ass. I mean, I remember the Depression very clearly, and it was really bad. About 30% unemployment in 1932. We nearly had a revolution. I mean, things were really rough. And there was no safety net. There were no pensions. There were no severance pay. If you lost your job, they call you on Friday and say, here's your pay go. And that was it. So I think it's no bad reflection on Mr. Fletcher to have been poor. Of course not. Not at all. No, on the contrary. I think he was a great survivor. He did a magnificent job of surviving under the circumstances and staying with his profession. I mean, I don't know what he would have done otherwise. He wasn't trained to do anything else. So he continued in his own way. He had a very modest income to make ends meet one way or another. And he lived a very happy man. Well, this has been very, very interesting to hear, I know. I can't thank you enough for sharing some of these memories with us, sir. Okay. You're welcome. Okay. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't put the information I've told you on the Internet if you want to. Well, it certainly helps... I want you to be sure that you make it clear that he was an honorable gentleman and also that he was a man of great stature and was admired by a hell of a lot of people. You know, I mean, he was not... He didn't become a bum in any way, you know. A dignity and a real gentleman. Well, it's very good to hear that, sir. Thank you very much for your time this afternoon. Okay. Good day. Thank you.