7:54 PM]2izla: so, i know im hitting you up on an angle like this but..
How is a player like Massi allowed to kidnap and immediately attempt script killing on a regular basis (this is legit the core of his gameplay style), but one DMH member does it once, and they are immediately punished?
[7:55 PM]2izla: especially with a fish slap, when people in cayo have a loaded fish inventory and cannot control whether the slap is with a 0.1 lb sardine, or a 3 ton ray
[8:01 PM]Ducati: the whole kidnapping thing is overdue a rework at the moment, it depends mostly on the situation really
[8:01 PM]Ducati: Silver saying in the chat that it was because he didn't like the medic's prices played a big part in it
[8:02 PM]Ducati: it's a bit of a grey area at the moment but kidnapping people does not give you free license to attack/kill them. it's no different to running up to a random player in the street and fishslapping them to death
[8:02 PM]Ducati: but for the record i've also punished massi (much more harshly) for the same thing
[8:02 PM]2izla: yeah, but that was an unintentional kill
[8:02 PM]2izla: a fish slap could have been a tiny fish or a huge fish, the slapper has no choice in it
[8:02 PM]2izla: similar to how a /foff can kill someone
[8:03 PM]Ducati: a /foff or /flash or /fart has a small chance of killing someone, a /fslap has a 100% chance of damaging someone and costing them health/armour
[8:03 PM]2izla: but so does a /hb
[8:04 PM]2izla: does damage, that is
[8:04 PM]Ducati: true, and if someone kidnaps someone with the (admitted) reason of their medic prices being too high and intentionally /hb's them to death i'd deal with it the same way
[8:05 PM]2izla: fair, but hb has a predefined amoutn of damage
[8:05 PM]2izla: i mean, we can argue semantics of the rules all day
[8:05 PM]2izla: im just saying man, its kinda feels very biased, when dmh deals with assholes all day and doesn't bother the admins.. but the second someone in dmh shows a single hair of their asshole lol..
[8:05 PM]2izla: we get punished
[8:06 PM]2izla: that's on us, i know.. but im just trying to give you my perspective on it
[8:07 PM]Ducati: as i said it's a grey area at the moment unfortunately when it comes to kidnapping. 
if the intention is clearly to kill the person (by trying flash, foff, then fslap) and then admitting in the chat that it's because their prices were too high would you not agree that should be considered DM?
[8:08 PM]2izla: well, because the fish slap was for said reason, it just wasn't intended to kill
[8:08 PM]2izla: but yeah, it's a grey area
[8:09 PM]Ducati: cmon
[8:09 PM]2izla: nah that cam eout wrong
[8:09 PM]Ducati: if some random comes up to you and /foffs you, /flashes you and then /fslaps you to death would you honestly not think they're trying to intentionally kill you?
[8:10 PM]2izla: can you do me a favor and spec the guy in game
[8:10 PM]2izla: i see where you're coming from
[8:10 PM]Ducati: also in regards to this, i'm the one who jailed silver, and i'm certainly not biased in any way against DMH, i know that rule-breaking in DMH is a big no-no and that you guys dont tolerate members breaking the rules
[8:10 PM]2izla: i just disagree with how the rules should be... but that doesn't make it a rule
[8:11 PM]2izla: but can you do me a favor and spec him
[8:11 PM]2izla: he's already attempting to bait dmh members further
[8:11 PM]Ducati: what id?
[8:11 PM]2izla: 428
[8:11 PM]Ducati: hard to pay attention to ingame reports/chat while on other screen 😦
[8:12 PM]Ducati: ah same guy
[8:12 PM]Ducati: btw just for the record, he didnt actually report any of you, he took it in jest and seemed already, i dont think hes trying to bait you
[8:12 PM]Ducati: seemed alright with it*
[8:12 PM]Ducati: i only looked into it because he asked in main chat whether it was allowed or not
[8:13 PM]Ducati: please dont think of him as an enemy just because of me lol
[8:13 PM]2izla: no, i don't think of it because of you
[8:13 PM]2izla: but because im hearing other dmh members tell me hes trying to bait them 
[8:14 PM]2izla: connect time 31 hours
[8:14 PM]2izla: a score of 217
[8:14 PM]2izla: 👀
[8:14 PM]2izla: hmm
[8:14 PM]Ducati: he hasn't really done/said anything wrong or against dmh, i was already watching him on other monitor since the silver incident while i was afk before realising that was the id you were talking about
[8:15 PM]Ducati: if im being honest he definitely isnt trying to bait any of you, if anything he's trying to join in with you
[8:15 PM]2izla: then im being lied to by my members i guess
[8:16 PM]2izla: you still speccing him?
[8:16 PM]Ducati: yeah i see hit dw lol
[8:16 PM]2izla: any way to look up his last messages/whispers? you'd find some gold there bro
[8:16 PM]Ducati: send screenshot?
[8:17 PM]Ducati: jfc did u see relentless lol
[8:17 PM]Ducati: oh youre not at cayo
[8:18 PM]Ducati: some guy just tried suicide bombing whole dmh gang
[9:19 PM]2izla: So listen.. you are in our group, DMH. because of this i have asked my members to reach out to members for guidance. 

You have played with many DMH members, and know that we play by the rules, and are pretty resilient. We can put up a lot of abuse before asking for admin's assistance. 

The issue I have is that whenever one of us brings something up to you, before being considered, it's instantly invalidated due to lack of evidence, or whatever reasons. 

However in this situation, the guy had absolutely no proof that (because one cannot decide this) one of us intended to kill him with a fish slap. Then proceeded to drop nazi shit in chat, and you still questioned the validity of our report.
[9:20 PM]2izla: Whether you intend to or not, you are questioning our integrity every time we report something, and enabling toxicity in the server.

That's not the type of community im trying to be a part of bro
[9:24 PM]Ducati: Evidence is needed, yes. 
Being part of a group does not change the criteria for substantiating complaints nor the criteria used for deciding whether a complaint can be acted on or not. 
Being in (any) group doesn't make any difference to the standard of proof for taking action on a complaint. 
There are admins in all of the current/past major groups on the server, suggesting that the rules or standards of proof should be different based on what group they have played with would be a shitshow. 

I'm very confused by whenever one of us brings something up to you, before being considered, it's instantly invalidated due to lack of evidence, or whatever reasons.  though, as i've literally never dismissed a complaint by any DMH member in the past
[9:25 PM]2izla: hold on
[9:25 PM]2izla: i mentioned being in the group in response to your frustration of many of us hitting you up.. no other reason
[9:26 PM]Ducati: ^
[9:26 PM]2izla: yeah, i don't think you do it intentionally
[9:27 PM]2izla: but your responses to many of our complaints, come off as like questing if we're bsing or not
[9:27 PM]Ducati: Do what intentionally? which complaint/s have i dismissed ?
[9:27 PM]2izla: i mean, i don't report much. but th elast few times.. i've had to give a whole schpeil of my side
[9:27 PM]Ducati: Holding you to the same standard of required proof as other players is not "questioning if we're bsing or not", it's the rules
[9:28 PM]2izla: that's fair
[9:28 PM]Ducati: the last few times?
[9:28 PM]2izla: when have i reported something to you??
[9:28 PM]2izla: i can only think of 2 times total
[9:28 PM]Ducati: never, so what do you mean by "the past few times ive had to give a whole schpeil of my side" ?
[9:29 PM]Ducati: The situation with Silver wasn't even your report but i explained it to you as best i could, other than that i can't think of a single report of yours i've dismissed
[9:29 PM]2izla: my
[9:29 PM]Ducati: Unless you're referring to me asking you for proof (the same as any other player) as making you give a schpiel of an explanation
[9:29 PM]2izla: you questioned whethr i was lying about asking tony to have a billboard made in cnr
[9:29 PM]2izla: for example
[9:30 PM]2izla: since u made me scroll the fuck up
[9:30 PM]2izla: ☝️
[9:30 PM]2izla: i think the only other player reports i did were in game
[9:30 PM]Ducati: bro are you serious or drunk lol
[9:30 PM]2izla: nah im being serious
[9:30 PM]2izla: the situation in game got me annoyed, admittedly
[9:31 PM]2izla: but i still need to relay the cause of frustration to you
[9:31 PM]2izla: i was scrolling up to look for a previous player report in discord
[9:31 PM]2izla: but i guess they were ingame
[9:32 PM]2izla: my point is... you dont mean to, but your playful responses to us come off as questioning our integrity
[9:32 PM]Ducati: I've literally never dismissed any report by you ingame nor in discord
[9:32 PM]2izla: maybe you're just being inquisitive about th esituation
[9:32 PM]2izla: and we're reading you wrong
[9:32 PM]2izla: but this is somethin a handful of people (the people who matter in dmh)
[9:33 PM]Ducati: Yeah that's possibly my bad then, i'll be less playful in future if that clears things up
[9:34 PM]Ducati: I'm the same way with LSM and 123 who are also mostly seasoned players similar to yourselves and they don't seem to find it problematic, i apologize if you took anything meant in a playful manner the wrong way and i will bare that in mind in future
[9:35 PM]Ducati: As i said to Krystania earlier, if you or any other DMH members have any reports in the future it's probably best if you use the proper channels from now on (/report in-game or post in the player-complaints section on Discord) rather than PMing me about it to save any future confusion
[9:37 PM]2izla: Thank you, and i appreciate you acknowledging that.
[9:37 PM]Ducati: Gotta hop off now anyway, got work in 6 hours ugh 😦 
Feel free to message me with any questions etc ingame or if you need any help or anything like that but from now on keep the official side of stuff (complaints etc) to the official channels
[9:37 PM]2izla: I know, it just really sucks to have to record a game to play it
[9:37 PM]2izla: aight man, thank you for taking the time to talk this shit out ❤️